Is a Mid Life Crisis an illness?

Great post. "... she now has her freedom." Holy smokes, denial is a very powerful force.

I agree with everything that you have written in your post...you have hit the nail on the head at all points. I couldn't have written a better post explaining it.

My concern here is categorizing MLC as an illness. Is it really an illness? Grief is a behavioral process...it is a reaction to an event related to the loss of something or someone. Is grief an illness?

Depression can be an illness because of its physical manifestations, but the root of depression is anger turned inward. Is anger an illness?

Much of MLC is an identity crisis...women and men just don't know who they are any longer...they have lost their sense of purpose, their roles have changed or they have lost their ability to cope with their life as they know it. Is the inbility to cope or not knowing who you are or purpose in life an illness?

Denial is a choice or a refusal to see the truth or accept the facts. Is denial an illness?

In my opinion, we have to be very careful about how we categorize mid-life crisis or transition. Calling it an illness leads people to believe that there are quick cures or that it's something that you just get over...or even be able to take a miracle cure or pill and all will be well. Do we downgrade the seriousness or the severity of the consequences of MLC by categorizing it as an illness? Conversely, do we give people license to carry on without consequence because they are "ill"? Most people who are ill or sick are given a pass because of their malady.

Shepherdess

Please stop by Women in MLC at www.womeninmlc.lefora.com or www.cyberhotflash.blogspot.com www.eleganceofawoman.blogspot.com www.mindsetforlife.blogspot.com

Thanks for the comments Shepherdess.

I wasn't really classifying MLC as an illness. My point was that a MLC should be approached as an illness. As there are mild cases in certain illnesses (physical and mental), a MLC can range from the harmless to the downright dangerous. A MLC can show symptoms that can be identified. The earlier the symptoms are recognised, the better the chance of coping.

Actually, the WHO's definition of being healthy is "a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity. When these conditions are not fulfilled, then one can be considered to have an illness or be ill". Fantasizing, projection, idealisation, substitution and provocation are coping mechanisms that can indicate the inability to cope with ones grief.

Changes happen throughout our married lives that do not automatically lead us towards thinking of leaving our spouses. Death, disease, war, redundancy, closure of business etc because there is a 'cause' that is recognised and hence easier to deal with. Moreover, a couple can deal with such causes jointly as they can be identified.

I don't think that MLC itself is an illness. A MLC is just a trigger that can make anything remotely blameable the 'cause'. The sufferer herself/himself generally suffers alone until denial, depression, projection, fantasy, idealization etc have kicked in. These are real psychological issues with real consequences and by the time these symptoms have surfaced its too late. Everything and everyone is blamed and they therefore feel a real need to escape. Its the only route they have left themselves. The real cause which is generally their inability to cope with ageing which should have been dealt with right at the start, is clouded by perceived causes like the spouse, the job, missed opportunities.

A MLC can start with someone staring at 40 candles on a birthday cake and end in divorce.

Like they say, a stitch in time....

But like I've said, I am not an expert so any criticism is welcome.

Hi,

I have found this site very useful. Its given me a label for what my wife is going through I think. She is leaving me in two weeks. These are my last days with her and my children before she takes everything to her newly rented house. All the lines she has told me (fallen out of love etc.) are classic MLC as told by so many people. In the sense that I cannot understand how she can have changed her feelings after 26 years and 4 beautiful children, I think she is going through a 'CHANGE'. Not 'the' change (she is 42) but something. She was so happy for all her marriage and only recently felt like this. I have always loved her and shown it visibly. We had the same goals, dreams and loves and achieved them all. I was so happy at the beginning of the year and had no idea she was going to spring this on me (10 months now passed).

Her uncharacteristic attitude (won't get help, won't talk, won't try and solve it with me, won't explore her feelings) makes me feel her view of the world has changed and she must do this. Therefore I do see it as a 'change', maybe an imbalance. Illness may be too strong a word and it would certainly alienate her.

She says don't analyse it, it happens. My love for you has changed. I have to go. And this is the big question. Could she just have fallen out of love with me? Is that normal? I think our marriage was so strong and I gave her everything so I struggle with that. She says you can't analyse why people fall out of love. BUT love is surely just a bunch of hormones, chemical soup. And if they change due to an imbalance (in 40s), then that could be the cause. In broad terms, you can correlate this destructive change with possible bodily changes. This helps me come to terms with her behaviour, but it doesn't help me change it.

I find solace in thinking that her cruel remarks, rejection, arrogance and failure to see all the good in our marriage is caused by an 'involuntary' change. i.e. she can't help it. Ultimately, that is the crux of the matter. Is she conscious of what she is doing to me (and family) or is it beyond her control.

If it is an imbalance, I pray she will emerge from it and see the beautiful love we have. I wait for that.

Des24

What do you mean she can't help it? She can help it...she just isn't choosing to help it...that's why she doesn't want you to analyze it. If you analyze it you will figure things out and see through her rational-lies and justifications for doing what she is doing. She has you wrapped around her little finger...having her cake and eating it too AND she is moving out and taking your kids to boot! Oh, she's definitely in control...she's in control of this whole situation. Her hormones may be out of control, her behavior out of control...but one thing is for sure you have allowed her to have complete control of this whole situation.

Take no comfort in the fact that MLC can be considered an illness...she is not necessarily sick. She is making bad decisions, lacking in coping skills, acting out and making decisions that she is not ready to make. MLC is primarily an issue with mental ramifications, not physical...but it also has both...leaning more toward the mental. She not only needs medical help, but mental help...much like an addict...not someone who has been diagnosed with cancer.

Why are you giving her all the control and if you aren't...it certainly seems like you are...you need to go to Women in MLC and check out shepherdess's forum...it was the best thing I ever did when I was in your position. The link is on her post here.

An inability to cope with aging is only one thing that women struggle with at this point in their lives...it is their inability to cope with everything in their lives...it isn't just aging. Please understand I do agree with the aging thing...I didn't like the idea of turning 50 at all when it happened. But it was only one tiny piece of my MLC puzzle. Women struggle with their worth, purpose, significance...they struggle with not being able to pursue their dreams, if they still have any, most have lost them or they have changed...they wrestle with past issues that tend to rear their ugly heads again...they struggle with changing roles...they struggle with health issues, death, change and no longer being needed the way they used to be...they also struggle with the changes that are involuntarily going on within their bodies. Many have allowed themselves to be drained to the point of being totally empty...dry...suffocated. They are lost...trying to escape their burden...risking everything for just to feel alive again. Many are depressed from allowing their anger turn inward...they are exhausted, sick and tired of being sick and tired. Most are victims of their own choosing, but hey don't see this...they are co-dependent and enable others behavior that ultimately has put them in the position that they are trying to escape. They are searching in all the wrong places...acting out and choosing badly. It is a tangled web or a huge mixed up puzzle that needs to be put together if they are ever going regain their self-worth, significance, happiness, success and an abundant life.

Now, I am NOT condoning what some women do when they are spinning out of control in an MLC...in fact, my mission now is to help women to prevent and/or avoid these very things that hurt them, their husbands...their children. I am also very aware that men struggle with these very same things and this is why I do not hold the belief that MLC is gender specific...human beings change and transition...it doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. The key to going through this time in your life is learning coping skills, understanding how the subconscious and conscious mind works and then purposefully working toward a positive result and not allowing negative behavior rule the day.

On another post:Labels

I have to agree with everything the author of the response to the "Labels" post...the wife is in control...you need to be analyzing why she thinks she fell out of love with you...she needs to be analyzing it too...it is not for the reasons that she thinks. I don't understand why many men go blindly in to this MLC tomorrow...allowing their out of whack wive's to drive the family bus. Get in the drivers seat...your children need you to be in control of all of this...if she is truly spinning through an MLC, the chances are that she is going to crash and burn are very high. The damage that can be done to your kids is very high. They are innocent and have no control...but you do...if you decide to seize it back!

A woman in MLC is struggling within herself and she is NOT putting on her own oxygen mask...how can you expect her to be able to put one on your kids. She can't!!! She doesn't even realize she needs the oxygen mask...she's not clearly thinking through things...she is feeling and acting...she is not reasoning, feeling, then acting. She's running...escaping and she wants to drag the kids along with her. Why are you letting her?

None of this is simple...it takes more than a response or two. I encourage you to keep on reading and responding here at LifeTwo, but also consider coming to the Women in MLC Forum www.womeninmlc.lefora.com. We have much to offer also. Get all the guidance, information and encouragement you can get...it will serve you well in the end...but don't let her have control of this whole situation.

Shepherdess

Ok, you are probably right. She is in control. But consider this.

1. I have worked tirelessly for 10 months to help her with this. She will not go to Relate (UK councelling) to even discuss it. I have been and tried to set up a meeting for her even to go on her own to discuss her feelings. She will not talk about it.

So I am exhausted trying to work out why she has fallen out of love and also to get her to face why. She says it is nothing I have done, or not done. It is just her. Her feelings have changed. The spark has gone.

2. As regards the children, I have very few options. She is the primary carer. I have a full time job. The law in the UK will unlikely give me custody of them. The best I can do is to preserve a friendly relationship with their mother and to let her have them. I will get access and I will miss them terribly but I think that is the best I can do. I don't want to lose them completely. This is a very difficult line to tread. I have to keep a loving relationship with them. They are SO important to me.

3. Yes I could be tougher and call the shots more BUT if she ever comes out of this am I better to have remained the reasonable, loving partner throughout this, even through the hurt? I have my conscience to guide me and I think I am being true to myself. She might respect me more if I am tougher but will I respect myself?

4. So, in what sense can I seize control of the situation? She is going. I will see the kids in a limited capacity. I can't see past the next few weeks. Yes I can see how my behaviour after she has gone may well influence how she sees me and I intend to be cool to her. I am not going to pester her or plead with her. I will try and move on. But right now, please tell me what on earth I can do that will be effective in 'seizing control' as you put it! Yes I do hope she comes through this. Since the subject was 'Is A MLC an illness?', then I have to say if it is, I hope she gets better. Therefore I have done all I can to protect any future way back for her. I like to think I have left the door ajar rather than having closed it. Am I wrong to have done that? Like I say, I feel I am true to myself. I have that at least. I think of how good our marriage was (26 years and only the last year was not working for her) and that is what I hope we can have again.

Des 24

I should add, although I have tried to remain civil in all of this I did put my foot down about one thing.

When it became apparent that she was unhappy and needed space she said maybe I should move out. I said no way. I was not walking away from my wife, my marriage my home or my children. If she wanted to then she would have to go, not me. That is what is happening. She is leaving. I am amazed how easily the state in this country helps people to do this, but she is going to a rented house.

So I remained strong on that point. I would not give up on the people I love.

Just incase you thought I was a complete doormat, I wasn't.

Des 24

I'm actually in the middle of writing another article entitled:

Welcome to the MLC bar - Where the glasses are always half empty, even when they're full.

Throughout history, cultures, languages and religions there are sayings, analogy's, stories and historical facts that remind us of the importance of how our perception can shape what we see, how we feel, and ultimately what decisions we make. Half filled glasses, rose tinted glasses, a blinkered view, silver linings, a light at the end of the tunnel, crisis and opportunities etc. Some of my favourites are: It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem. ~G.K. Chesterton

Retreat, hell! We're just advancing in another direction. ~Oliver Prince Smith

It is not the man who has little, but he who desires more, that is poor. ~Seneca They are all extremely poignant when applied to people going through a mid-life crisis.

As soon as I get the time, I'll finish and post it.

I think that the struggle with ageing isn't just about a number, it encompasses appearance, security, achievement, relationships, health and many other factors. You're entering MLC territory when you obsessively assess and evaluate some or all of these aspects of ageing against the alternatives. Both what you see and what you want can be distorted by your perception. You may be average looking and perceive yourself to be unattractive. Your perception may be that cosmetic surgery will make you beautiful whereas you will still remain average looking. Yet you're desperate to go under the knife and 'change' what you see.

When we start out on the road of life we do not even contemplate the end of the road, we're too busy looking at whatever is visible in the now. Somewhere down the line, we realise that we've travelled more than half way and that the road actually has an end. Instead of continuing to enjoy whatever view we have we try to frantically evaluate what has passed us by and assess what we need to see. What is visible now is suddenly irrelevant.

I think we are on the same page with regards to the factors involved in a MLC. I think we may just differ on how big a factor 'change' is. I believe that how we perceive change is a bigger factor than the actual changes themselves.

What amazes me about people going through a MLC is how they allow themselves to often see the glass as not just half empty, but completely empty. Whatever they have in their life is just a big sacrifice at the expense of whatever they perceive as their route to fulfilment. Nothing they have brings them any joy because of what they perceive as a life they should have had and still can have.

If you try to compare your real life with what your imagination can conjure up, your real life will always come up short, yet that is what people in a MLC do.

Our dreams, desires and ambitions can sometimes be our worst enemy even though we perceive them to be an inherent part of who we are. If we think that what we want for ourselves is always best for us then we have just made the multi billion dollar advertising, marketing and media industry insignificant. They make money purely on their ability to make us perceive whatever we do not have as always being better than what we have got.

They've influenced the clothes you want, the car you want, the house you want. Are you sure they haven't influenced the life you want?

What we want can often be part of the problem, not the solution to how we feel.

Hi Des. I'd actually posted a response to you entitled 'Tiptoeing through the minefield' and from someone who has brought his marriage from beyond the brink I will be the first to admit that once the stage is reached where her walls are up and her decision is made then it really is almost mission impossible.

If a spouse unilaterally decides that the relationship is over and that there is nothing to discuss without putting sufficient effort into reconciliation or mediation then you are not talking to someone who is thinking rationally. Unless of course they are in an abusive relationship.

The problem with dealing with someone who is by then also in denial, is that it is impossible to convince them that they are not thinking rationally. As far as they are concerned, they've done enough thinking and analysing, and have suffered long enough.

People that far gone in a MLC are rarely able to pull themselves out. In fact I have seen people still stuck in their MLC even years after the divorce as they try to 'find' themselves sometimes with the added realisation that they may have made the wrong decision. The estranged ex on the other hand often goes through a phase of contemplation and grief followed by realisation and acceptance. I have sometimes seen the spouse left behind a happier person than the person who left in search of happiness.

If you think of it as an illness, it seems to me that would excuse a lot of behavior. But if you think of it as a normal developmental stage, that means you have to take up the developmental challenges it gives you, and find out how to function in the more advanced condition of life.

If you have a two-year-old that gets frustrated at not being treated like a baby anymore, you can engage the child's temper tantrums and then step back and say, "She's having her terrible twos--what's a parent supposed to do?" Or you can see your child having a tantrum and wait for some good behavior to occur and then affirm the good.

In the case of MLC there are all kinds of emotional storms and they ought to be given patience, not allowed to get out of control, not stifled.

So that's how I'm trying to get thru mine. I hated my husband three days ago. Yesterday I loved him again. I had to use love as a transitive verb, as in actively love, not just fall into it. So, we'll see what happens. I did find that when I said what I needed, it helped a lot. (ie I do not feel fun-loving and frisky right now and I want my space!) It wasn't sweet and pleasant but it was real and honest and self-respectful and it didn't put him down. He didn't like it because I wasn't his usual sweetheart.

The more I hear your story and what you are doing, within the circumstances that your country allows for men that are in your situation...you are doing or have done what you can do. Your wife is not cooperating...you have put your foot down on some very important points. You did exactly the right thing when you told her that you were not the one who would leave...if she wanted separation...then she needed to be the one to go. I do not think that you are doormat because you have explained what strong actions you have taken. In fact, I believe you to be a man of great noble character...keep those things you have said in response to me in your heart and in your mind...these beliefs will keep you strong, allow you to persevere through even the most difficult of this storm you are going through. Make sure you take care of yourself in all of this...be diligent in remaining strong. Keeping the door slightly open for her return is commendable...and it is your choice.

Des24...I have told you over on the WINMLC forum that I can't help but think there is something else going on here...a reason other than that she has fallen out of love with you. Please look in to these things or keep your eyes open for them. If you discover her true reason for leaving was other than what she has told you...you may change your mind about keeping that door open...or maybe you won't...again this is your choice.

You are a wise woman...you explained what I have been trying to say very succinctly. I agree with your assessment completely. I love your responses here and watching you grow through all of this...you are weathering the storm well, even if it doesn't seem like it at times.

I sure could use you over at WINMLC...please consider coming and discussing with the other ladies that are there...if you would like.

shepherdess56

I must have my head screwed on back to front then because I thought that the reverse was true.

I would have thought that calling a MLC a normal developmental stage gives the wrong impression entirely. It makes it sound like an old kung-fu movie where the individual undertakes a mystical journey of self discovery and after overcoming a series of enlightening challenges, one achieves a state of nirvana........ding!

Many people who have never experienced a MLC perceive it as almost glamorous. A husband having bought himself a sports car, runs off with a girl half his age, or a wife joins the gym and has an affair with the gym instructor. Nudge nudge...wink wink. Sounds like something out of Sex and the City, or Desperate Housewives. A bit of excitement in an otherwise mundane life.

Its almost an invitation to become self absorbed in ones mid-life crisis when it can have serious consequences.

People in a MLC can end up making some of the most important decisions in their lives when they are in one of the most emotionally unstable time of their life. They may well get depressed, be in denial and be unable to cope. To make matters worse they often refuse the help of others, and are unwilling to consult a counsellor or therapist and may even contemplate suicide. Somewhere along the line they have crossed over from being in a phase to being ill.

When I began to "change" I didn't recognize it as me. My world, my daily life slowed down from hectic, and there was a little more time ... time to wonder who I was, and where I was going.

I was in a 17-year relationship with my high school sweetheart, and we had 2 children together. Our lives had been a series of struggles, and successes. We got to a point in our lives when it slowed down just enough to catch our breaths, and things began to unravel. I started being re-introduced to old friends after one old friend found me. I was excited with all the new changes, and felt like I wanted to LIVE while I was alive. I began to want "me" time. I wanted to be more independent, not to say that I wasn't independent while in my relationship (but my spouse was controlling and insecure). I often said "I want to be an individual in a relationship"

As I cultivated new relationships with friends, I began to detach from my spouse. He began to become suspicious and increasingly irritable. This created much conflict, and I began to hide my friends. I felt his expectations were unjust and that I needed to stand up for myself.

At the lowest point of our relationship, he moved out when I asked him to. I believed we needed physical separation as we were volatile and abusive to each other and the children who were subject to our behaviour.

I asked him to get help for his anger and controlling ways to help eliminate the abuse from our family unit. He went for a few visits, and never completed. I felt that he wasn't fighting to hold the family together, and became increasingly resentful. I began to have an emotional affair, with one of my old school friends, and further detached from the relationship. I was unaware that I was contributing to the abuse while I was actively involved. I wanted zero responsibility, but maintained the house, the children and my work. I competed with my spouse often. I compared our situation, and questioned his effort to the family as a unit, and as a father.

Once my spouse began a sexual relationship and asked me "what did you expect me to do?" I further competed in the abuse, I began to look for an outside relationship with a man as well. There were a few more encounters for him, soon I took the same step!

This separation continued and has been miserable for a year. During the holiday season this year, I began to think of him as the man that I loved... and wondered where he went. My youngest son began to ask "when is daddy coming?" and I began to awaken. Wrapping Christmas gifts was tough, thinking this would be the first Christmas that my boys would be without their dad.

I began to slip into what I recognized as depression, and guilt for keeping my children from their father, I began to think I should have fought harder to maintain the family. Talking to a therapist friend (not a formal therapy session) she suggested that I may be coming out of a midlife crisis. I had NEVER considered that the problem was me. I had never thought about a midlife crisis for women. I began to read, and I had every symptom!

Only since then have I had a mild sense of relief that the *craziness* I felt had a name, and it wasn't mine.

I do feel that I was sick. Maybe I still am. I feel that I was lost. A sense of mental confusion. A form of delusion. Will this get better with knowledge?

Realisation of the fact that you are going through a MLC is the first and most important hurdle, which you have already cleared. That in itself will enable you to allow yourself to fully understand what you are going through. What you do next really depends on the specifics of your case.

If your marriage really is over, then you need help in understanding and accepting the situation and guidance with moving on. People often end up continuing to beat themselves up even after they have parted ways with their spouses. Some realise that their decision was wrong, some live in denial and extend their MLC for years even after divorce. Some go through a 'honeymoon' phase and are then confronted by their MLC again. Some successfully move on.

Unless you are totally convinced that the ending of your relationship is a good thing, I would still say that there is a remote possibility that you can patch things up depending of course on your husbands state of mind. It looks as though your MLC may have pushed your husband into his. At the very least there is something that you can both relate to even though he will feel that you pushed him into his affair.

People can and do fall in love again even after the dreaded 'I love you, but I'm not in love with you' or the flat out 'I don't love you any more' has been said. Couples do reconcile after physical and emotional affairs. It isn't unheard of.

The first step is to remain in contact with your husband with civility. Don't fall into the blame game, don't be confrontational and try to make sure that whenever you do talk that there is no bitterness.

Do some more reading and recognise the typical signs and responses before you set out to try and reconcile with him. It is quite possible that even though he has feelings for you and misses being with you and the children, he himself may be in too deep in his MLC and may flat out refuse any form of counselling.

There is hope as long as that hope comes out of a realistic perspective.

There's a huge benefit to you if you stay and work out your new life with your spouse and family. It will pummel you but you'll be improved as a human being.

p.s. you know if you can't, of course.

While reading the posts, and having courage to write my own. I feel optimistic for the first time in nearly 2 years.

My spouse and I were BOTH clearly in crisis, and I am now "aware" of my part in the whole ordeal. Now I feel compelled to continue in my healing and want to share things I've been hiding for a long time. I want to be free'd from the guilt, without disowning my responsibility.

My spouse began to lose weight, in fact he lost about 70 pounds. Weight was never an issue for me, and his weight was not a problem for me. I supported his decision and purchased him a herbal weight loss kit to assist in his goals. He did wonderfully!

I began spending more time on the internet, creating an emotional relationship with a male friend from public school. My spouse was unhappy and began to be verbally abusive. He would make threats, and manipulate every situation that I was in. His threats and abuse drove me further into the emotional relationship, as it appeared that while my spouse was unhappy with me... there was someone who wasn't.

I ended up running away... I went on a one-week vacation to Florida to "sort things out" classic MLC now that I have started to read. I was miserable while I was there, my spouse continued to verbally abuse me while I was there. When it was time to come home, I wanted to be there... I wanted to be with my family. I wanted to "prove" to my spouse that I wanted to be with him and our children, I put forth an effort to be "sexier" and that made him suspicious too.

We struggled through, and I maintained a connection with the other man.

Before Christmas, I was feeling guilty for the feelings that I wanted to talk to this other man while I was in a relationship, the guilt was incredible! I had never in 17 years even seen other men in that regard. I ran away again, I went on a weekend away shopping spree for my family. Most of the money spent was on gifts for my spouse.

During the Christmas holidays, he exploded again, this time it was verbally and emotionally the most violent to date. I decided to protect my children and asked him to leave the family house. He did. We discussed a short break, maximum 6 months (til June), if we could work things out, the money spent on the rental unit would be well spent and if we didn't work things out, we'd sell the family home in the summer for the best profit possible and move our separate ways. My spouse complained about the rental unit, and went and found an apartment 45 minutes away from the family house, and signed a one year lease in April. This was a clear indication to me that he decided NOT to come home. At the same time I became aware that he was in a sexual relationship with an old family friend. He moved into his new apartment May 1st.

He began another type of relationship with our old neighbour. All this while I was involved with the other man, in a limited capacity. We took the next step at the end of May. I was NOT happy with the situation, and even while I was telling myself that this was not what I wanted, I found myself driving there. I would tell myself every time.. that is IT! Never again... until the next time.

My spouse continued to date and experience new things while he began attending the gym everyday, became obsessed with his appearance, would often ask "how do you think I look?" He got a few new tattoo's, got his teeth whitened, began to drink a lot. And attention from other women was furious, and fueled his hungry ego.

I asked him to come on a family vacation with us this past Christmas (2008) he refused and said that he couldn't get the time off work. He asked why I wanted him to come with me and the boys, and my response was, you just never know... maybe we could leave all of *this* behind and fix us. He still refused and said that I was confusing him.

Shortly afterwards, I became aware that my spouse was in a relationship with a woman, and he had strong feelings for her. She was in love with him. He thinks it is because of this relationship that I want to reconcile our relationship. In fact, that may be a factor, but I didn't know about her while my eyes began to open.

I am now concerned that he is starting a relationship with a woman who has 2 failed marriages behind her, and who has fallen in love with him within their first month of meeting. He doesn't recognize that he too may be in a crisis. I want to share with him the fact that he may fall while unstable, but it just looks like I am trying to drag him away from this new-found happiness.

Being able to share this with people (virtually) that have some knowledge empowers to me continue fighting.

Thank you for this forum, I think it will help me a lot.

Although I prefer issues to be worked out between spouses, only you can tell if your marriage is worth fighting for or not. I am unable to read between the lines over a forum and that is why I hesitate in convincing people to try to salvage their marriages. There may be factors in a marriage that I just cannot see such as emotional or physical abuse. In such cases someone contemplating divorce may well be justified in doing so.

A few descriptions you gave of your spouses behaviour raised some red flags for me. You mentioned verbal abuse, threats, manipulative behaviour, verbal and emotional violence. If the menace is real then this is not acceptable behaviour and you have additional issues to work on apart from the MLC. On the other hand you may see his behaviour being more menacing than it really is. I've seen couples argue as aggressively and loudly as each other only to have the woman then accuse the man of being threatening and abusive. Again, nobody here can judge exactly what is going on.

As far as your husbands new relationship is concerned it really does not matter if the other woman is a retired hooker or the woman of his dreams. You need to decide for yourself that you want to salvage your marriage despite the possibility that you may not be successful in doing so. She is irrelevant as far as this decision is concerned.

If you decide that your marriage is worth fighting for then you need to stock up on all the insight, information and knowledge that you can.

You know, when I went home this last summer to collect my things from the house, in the family room, at the computer center, were the black roses and black balloons from her 40th birthday party (that I couldn't attend.) Still sitting there after almost 2 years. I did take notice then, but thought little of it. I wonder if those 'prank' gifts trigger ones sense of 'limited time' left on earth? NikkFitt - Your husband is setting himself up for a very painful fall. I am grieved to hear that he has wandered from the marriage. -Jim

"People that far gone in a MLC are rarely able to pull themselves out. In fact I have seen people still stuck in their MLC even years after the divorce as they try to 'find' themselves sometimes with the added realisation that they may have made the wrong decision. The estranged ex on the other hand often goes through a phase of contemplation and grief followed by realisation and acceptance. I have sometimes seen the spouse left behind a happier person than the person who left in search of happiness."

You've hit the nail on the head. It took me two years to get here but I see it. What amazes me is how utterly predictable this all becomes. My wife was on top of the world two years ago. I was reeling. She had used the last months or so, maybe even a year, to plot and plan and to sneak around in extramarital affairs. Then, the marriage got kicked to the curb. I remember her smugness. I also remember how sick it made me feel and the grief.

Fast forward to Jan. 2009 and I wouldn't have it any other way. Every contact is high drama. Something is always wrong. It's like she tries to draw me into her life whereas before she could not have cared less.

I have moved on "like a bird that flew." Not happy every day, but always content.

The person who is leaving is not the property of the other spouse! So all attempts to call this an illness, biological change, MLC etc is garbage. These are attempts of the remaining spouse to belittle the feelings of the person who is leaving. Remember, YOU DO NOT OWN THE PERSON. If the person wants to leave, it is their right to do so! Your are the sick one if you try to manipulate the person with counseling, make them feel guilty etc. When they don't love you any more, they don't love you any more. PERIOD.

"If the person wants to leave, it is their right to do so! Your are the sick one if you try to manipulate the person with counseling, make them feel guilty etc. When they don't love you any more, they don't love you any more. PERIOD."

Wow. Can I rephrase this a little different way? Love can only be true if it is given out of free will of both involved. In this respect, I agree with you completely.

That being said, I think there are some folks out there who are not called to a lifetime vow of marriage. That is fine.

If you are not married and ever get close to it, please let your prospective spouse see your thoughts here first.

sam_in_la

sam in la- you make an interesting point. when my x told me she didn't want to be with me anymore, I am pretty sure she was in a pretty deep depression - I'm a smart guy - it runs in her family, pretty serious...but, I said, "ok - so what do we do now then?"

So, after a really fantastic 25 year marriage- we ended it in a matter of weeks.

So, if your adult daughter quits getting out of bed, loses weight, quits her job, etc., do you say - she is an adult - don't manipulate her?

When your wife, who you know better than anyone, suddenly tells you she doesn't love you - when you haven't really changed, but you sense great changes in her - is it hard to believe that a spouse/husband would ask for counseling? We lost $200K on the sale of our house in a bad market. Our children will have to take out massive loans for college. We are both living in fairly expensive homes - now divorced. The emotional and financial toll of her little affair will be life changing for many - worth it? We will see I guess. That's a lot to give up for a different penis.

Why are we divorced? Could be depression. Could be hormones. Could be chemical.

I walked away. I have some regrets about that. What are we both doing now? Trying to figure out our lives in light of both living single - trying to take care of two bewildered daughters who, (their words) NEVER saw this coming.

Request counseling? Damn right. If it was good - great - a fun, fulfilling relationship that changes suddenly while in age group of 40s? Were talking physical - not emotional - chemical - not heart.

Vows mean something. If the hot chick at work is flirting with me, should I leave my family for her because I don't love my spouse anymore, or so I think?

How freaking stupid. But, as an adult, I get to be stupid and lose everything over it if I choose. This is what my wife did - and now we suffer everyday from her new path.

iamsingle

This is very subjective but YES it's an illness. Something that has only negative manifestations can be nothing else (with the only positive being that the other party will come out stronger... but if that's positive then so's the process of getting punched in the face which eventually causes you to be more resilient and quicker to duck next time!)

Consider the following manifestations: - selfish behaviour taken to the extreme - self-righteous behaviour - infantile behaviour - promiscuity - denial of loved one(s) - focus and desire of material goods, usually for sake of appearance... leading to the last one - vanity

Now what sort of sane, non-masochistic person would want to subject themselves to this lot? And to think of people who support loved ones who actually ARE sick with life-threatening illnesses? Somehow this makes it even more 'sick' to me. Sorry for tone of this but seeing all the suffering on here which is caused by nothing more than selfish egotistical delusion (and I suspect lousy parenting somewhere back in the process) I get angry sometimes. LIFE'S TOO SHORT.

Hiya

another uk person here where are you posting from

sian1961@ntlworld.com

My wife has clearly been going through some major changes. She's withdrawn dramatically. I've known this is a full blown mlc for some time, but she's denied that. I've told her I thought she had one foot in and one foot out, but she insisted she doesn't. So I did a little digging and found something she wrote. She feels trapped, living a life of a mother that everyone else wants her to live. She wants freedom. She knows it will cost her a lot, but at this point, I don't know if I can slow this train down. Apparently love for me isn't enough. I fear it's past that point and I'm just a chain she needs to break. I can't begin to describe my sadness.

Consider the following manifestations: - selfish behaviour taken to the extreme - CHECK - self-righteous behaviour - CHECK - infantile behaviour - CHECK - promiscuity - CHECK - denial of loved one(s) - CHECK - focus and desire of material goods, usually for sake of appearance... leading to the last one - CHECK - vanity - CHECK

All of the above apply to my stbx husband. I am 9 months into the separation which came about two years after the MLC started. Any yes, I can trace it back to lousy parenting too.

I am looking forward to the day when I look back on this with indifference, rather than pain.

'indifference, rather than pain'... that blew me away!!! It's crazy how it works: you go for years in a state of relative complacency (now THAT'S a topic of debate huh? Can be bad as it implies boredom and apathy but if you focus also on the sort of synchronicity that happens between couples, for eg when you're on a good holiday and in the flow of things then it's sort of nice)

... and then when the crisis comes it's anything but complacency! Old feelings that were buried or 'on hold' become huge and in razor sharp focus; the phone rings it's 'just' them and suddenly your heart's racing! wtf?

And the pain, pure aching horrible pain... I couldn't understand this, it was just so alien! How I craved for simple indifference.

But then that I feel is life and the sound and feeling of a big shift underway. Ouch.

Amazing checklist it was if I was writing it. You are right as well his parents no support either they are really hard and cold people written off their grandson. Always blamed myself but I feel now what ever I did wasnt good enough. Well just found out he has moved in wiht new girlfreind (a bit sad) but let us see how long she puts up with him. Love at the moment but he will never change he was always depressed about something, never had freinds, hated work, hated everything really Well these two deserve each other him for leaving and this woman who would let him leave his family without sorting things out and doing the right thing.