My husband's secret desire

I would not stay silent.
I would not leave.

My guess is that he believes that you would not want to roleplay out the BDSM fantasy. He may be ashamed of it.
May peple who have these fantasies have shame about them. Not with strangers, but with their loved ones.

I would sit him down and let him know a few things.

1) you read his email. That this was wrong if he expected privacy.

note: if he feels scared or trapped or immature, he many make a mountain out of this molehole. Let him do that.
Some people are very touchy about boundaries and betrayal. The fact that he is planning on cheating does not excuse your misdemeanor.

2) let him know that you know about his fantasy.

now comes what only you know.

If you refuse to at least try it, then will you give him your blessing?

If it were me, and I am not, that I know of, into BDSM, and I did not feel comfortable about doing a "scene" I would suggest we go together to some S and M events as observers.

You both need to see a marriage counselor with an expertise in sexual issues, and/or possibly a sex therapist.

Does it make you sad or puzzled he would refuse to share this part of his life?

Let him know you are willing to work this thrugh.

I hope this helps,

Prayerfully,

Pete

you have gotten a lot of feedback on your question and all of it seems correct to one degree or another. however it may not all be as bleek as it is made out to be.

yes the idea of your husband going to Thailand to engage in this, and doing it behind your back is unpleasant, it would be for anyone that is in love, and the medical risks mentioned above are very real. no doubt if he is an intelligent man he knows this himself, and probably stuggles with those issues. however he may feel that he has no other option but to approach the topic in this fashion. if what you have said about him is true, and he is such a proud person, then i would imagine he is on one hand mortified by his own fantasies, and the idea of sharing them with you seems to him to be completely out of the question. however on the other hand he may deeply desire to explore this aspect of his sexuality within your marriage and with the woman he loves, but just feels that it would be so repugnant to you that he is not willing to take the risk of losing your love.

you on the other hand have come by this knowledge in a way which now prevents you from addressing the situation for fear of his reaction to the invasion of his privacy. this puts you in a difficult position. I would imagine you want to talk to him about it but cannot think of away to bring up the BDSM topic.

the bottom line (in my opinion) is that you are both hiding behind a facade of what constitutes a healthy married relationship, that most likely is the result of growing up in a culture that tells us all from the time we are very young, what "normal" is and what "perverted" is.

In reality there are very few things sexually which are truely perverted unless they involve one person being an unwilling participant, such as people who have a sexual interest in children, or any relationship where one party is dealing from a position of power and the other feels the influence of that power, (like the recent scandals in the religious community). anything which takes place between two consulting adults simply because they both find it "enjoyable" is simply an expression of their intimacy.

in my opinion the biggest problem you both seem to having is Trust, neither of you truly trust that the other person is willing to accept them as they are.

I must address one statement you made in your original post, that being that you felt part of the allure of this "concept" for your husband was the idea of "getting away with it behind your back". this sounds very much like a statement from someone who has been victimized in the past, and carries a deep fear that it will happen again. I can't say for sure, but i would be willing to bet that you are "very wrong" in that statement. I would imagine that deep down inside your husband wishes that his "mistress" could be YOU. as a matter of fact if what you said about your relationship and how "you both thought you would never meet someone so perfect" is true, I would be willing to "bet the farm" he wishes it was you..

So the problem you would seem to have right now is how to effectively deal with this..

I would agree with one previous poster get some counseling. you sound like you both need to start communicating "honestly" and "openly" about all of your thoughts, including the less "socially acceptable" ones.. I would imagine that you as a woman of 52 have your own fantasies, but have never been able to express them... life is too short to let society and the mass media tell you what constitutes a "proper life".

do some research on the internet into sexuality and you will find that is not all porn..

find a way to bring up the topic of sexuality and some of it's less socially acceptable expressions and you may be surprised by his reaction. the only thing i would warn is that you need to allow him to feel this is a topic you "want" to talk about not one you feel obligated to talk about...

do an internet seach on "elise sutton" and it will at least give you a starting point to undertand what is going on. no doubt much of what you find will be more extreme than even you or your husband are looking for, but somewhere in the info you will come across a common ground that might just work for you both...

good luck, relationships are not easy, but yours sounds like a good one, and it would be shame to let that slip away.

I'll watch to see if you respond

from Away

Thanks for your input. Yes, I know I was wrong to read his email. Believe me, I wish I had never seen any of this. But....I did. I cannot tell him I have seen it as he would definitely feel his privacy had been violated (rightfully so). He would leave me.

He has more pride than anyone I have ever known and I know he is ashamed of this fantasy. He would be devastated if he were to find out that I know. I don't think he could face me. He would be embarrassed and humilated to the point of ending the marriage. I have no doubt that he would. I cannot let this happen and will have to carry this to my grave. Even if our marriage were to end tomorrow, I would never tell anyone as I would never humiliate him.

His "fantasy" is a very mild role-playing, bondage fantasy with no pain or disgusting rituals, so no, I would not deny him. But I think a large part of the fantasy is doing it without my knowledge. Like part of the thrill of cheating is getting caught.

And yes, if he were to come to me and tell me this is what he wants to do I would give him my blessing. But I never got that chance.

Thanks again!
AME

1. This man is willing to risk catching and bringing home a disease for you to share. Can you really accept that he is that kind of person, and that he treats you with such disrespect?
2. Thailand is known as a major "sex vacation" destination. Once your husband arrives there, he will be bombarded with offers he may not be able to refuse.
3. He is lying to your face, repeatedly.
4. It's highly unlikely that he will stop his extramarital activities.
5. BDSM may be something he has experienced before.
6. BDSM is, for some people, a driving need, and it can become a habit, or even an obsession.
7. It may very well be that you have NO CLUE as to what your husband's desires, fantasies, etc. really are. He may be downplaying it all (to you, and to the hooker in Thailand) due to his "pride," and so that you can "accept" what he says he wants.
(Aside: How "proud" can a man truly be, if he goes to hookers in Thailand, in order to pay for and "submit" to their fake Domination?)
8. If you keep your mouth shut, and possibly even if you open your mouth, this situation will become the Elephant in the Living Room.

It's better to come clean and get it all out in the open, although HE may not come completely clean. Don't invest more of your time, your life, and your heart in him and in this marriage, when you have so many unanswered questions.

Everything you guys have said has given me much to think about. The one hope I have is that he won't do it.

This is so out of character for him. He has always been a really wonderful person. Works hard, we have a beautiful home and a few hundred acres on the river. I know he has not done this before. This is the only time in the years we have been together that he has been secretive, etc. I have always known where he is and what he is doing. I can't really say what he does, but he flies into a foreign country but is immediately taken to his office which is based on the ocean. Same process 5 to 8 weeks later - flown to foreign country where his flight intercepts and brings him home. He is always where he is supposed to be when I call his office, etc. Home for 3 weeks then he's gone again. Same routine over and over.

Before he left home this last time we had a big argument and he has never been angry at me before. I am hoping this is something that he got into his head for "spite" but won't really follow through. He is also at the age of midlife at which time many men do crazy things that are out of character.

I am not defending him, but I want to make it clear that he isn't some scummy sex pervert lurking in the alleys.

It's more like he's lost his mind.

Of course I'm terrified of catching some horrible disease - that's the biggest scare actually. The fact is I am also financially dependent on this man. But also, I would be so miserable without him. I don't know which is worse.

I appreciate you listening to me...it helps just to have someone to talk to about this.

AME

I'm sorry, this is so wrong on so many different levels. Your husband is going to Thailand to cheat on you. He claims that it will just be 'mild role playing' but it might be more than that. You don't know and perhaps he doesn't either until he gets there. This type of activity in Thailand raises the issue of AIDS. According to Wikipedia, Thailand has done generally a good job with HIV/AIDS prevention but there has been a resurgence of the disease in the last few years. And its prevalence is certainly higher among sex workers than the general population. Regardless, if he follows through he will be putting you at risk.

I emphasize with your dilemma and I don't mean to offer a rash judgment but:

1. He's lying to your face, on something not small. Irregardless of how you found out, you now know that he is a liar.

2. He is so "proud" that you feel he would walk out on your marriage over your acting out on your concerns? Pride is one thing but if someone is willing to put their own feelings ahead of the marriage then that doesn't say much about their character or their commitment.

3. Given your experiences with your previous husband, it is very understandable that you have a trust issue--something he is no doubt aware. He should be working to help you overcome this and that effort should be placed ahead of his issues of email privacy. Given these events I imagine your ability to trust him has diminished.

From my viewpoint you have a husband who is away for 6 months a year which is an awful long time and plenty of opportunity to do something wrong. You depend on his morals, character and trust to not cheat. However, per your description of him, I don't see a lot of these virtues. I hope I'm wrong and of course this is just my opinion, you need to decide what is right for you and your marriage. I do agree with the commenter above who suggested marriage counseling.

Wesley Hein
Wesley [at] lifetwo [dot] com
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Dear Away,

Your perception of my situation is amazing! Everything you said is right on target. I don't know if you are actually a therapist, but if not, you should be, as it seems you have the ability to see my situation through a looking glass.

As a matter of fact, I believe his "plans" for his "adventure" have been cancelled. He has forwarded some emails to me from his management team which have shed some light on his travel plans (such as his itinerary, etc). Also, we have been communicating in the past couple of days in a more relaxed and open fashion, like it has always been in the past. It's kind of hard to explain, but it seems the "peace" we have always felt with each other has returned. He has confided in me about some things that he has been upset with me about and I in return have confided in him. Not anywhere near the BDSM thing, as we can't speak so freely while he is at work due to security measures, but hopefully we will be able to cross that threshold at some point in the future. I now believe he had every intention of going on this "trip", but came to his senses and realized the dangers and repercussions of his actions.

Again, you are correct about the trust issue. We are both worried about what the other would think "if he/she only knew". I have always praised him almost to the point of embarrassment. I call him my superman; have always praised his integrity, his ethics, his talents, everything about him, as if he has no faults. I have told him many times that he is perfect. So I feel he thinks it would damage my opinion of him if I were to find out that he is only human with human frailties. I totally agree with what you said about sexual perversion. Whatever takes place between 2 consenting adults is not perverted. Actually we have had a very open and comfortable, wonderful sexual relationship. However, I think this is one boundary he has been afraid to cross with me. There again, I believe he is afraid I would think he's a deviant.

I am trying to come up with a way to bring all of this out into the open in a way that he would know it's OK to trust me with anything and everything.

Yes, I have been victimized in the past. It would be too long to go into here, but I believe I've gotten past the worst of it. Trust will probably always be fragile for me. As for my husband, he was deserted by his parents when he was a baby and given to his grandparents for adoption while his mother went on to marry a host of wealthy men while she became an important political official in overseas affairs. She always kept in touch with him, as does his father, but she was a distant mother and no matter what he has done, what success he has achieved, it's never quite enough for the ice queen. Yet he remains closer to her than to his dad. He has more respect for her than his dad, who is a very sweet, loving person, but hasn't had the wealth or priviledge of his mother, yet has so much pride in my husband. So I feel that my husband is always trying to win "approval" and feels he has to "hide" anything that might make him appear abnormal. Obviously, I don't care too much for his mother but I adore his father.

My husband had 2 wives before me. #1 cheated on him more than once and he divorced her when he found out. The 2nd one left him while he was out of the country, giving him no reason for doing so. She married him for financial gain, only staying for 3 years. She tried (but failed) to take him to the cleaners, so yes, he has trust issues, also since he has been "deserted" by women starting with his own mother.

I am still researching mid-life crises, sexual preferences, etc., to get a better understanding of what I might do to rectify this situation and solidify our relationship by satisfying his curiosity. I truly adore him and I believe he feels the same. He has just gotten off track for some reason.

Your post is a real comfort to me as it seems you understand my position so perfectly.

Thank you so much! AME

Dear AME,

I was really glad to hear that your situation has improved, that's wonderful for you both..

don't let the opportunity to address the communication issues slip by... the ability to talk openly in a relationship is key.

by putting your husband up on a pedestal of praise you may have made him feel that your love for him was dependent upon him mantaining that lofty position in your eyes, and if he had any thoughts about things which did not fit with that golden boy image. then he no doubt felt very much like he was living a lie. having to maintain a code of conduct which was not truly who he is inside, would eventually lead to a build up of frustration and resentment in him.

Is your husband aware of your "trust demons"? where they come from and how much they effect you at times.. if he isn't you should make a point of making sure he understands.. it would certainly make him feel better to know that you to have issues that you wrestle with. as far as bringing up the topic of how you came across this BDSM info, and his "privacy" reaction... it would probably be much easier if he felt that it's not that you do not trust "him" specifically, but rather that you have problems with trust in general, resulting from your past. You never know, he no doubt has put you up on a pedestal as well, and feels uncomfortable around someone who is so perfect... even if those thoughts are of his own making, they still effect his perception of your relationship...

he may be making all kinds of assumptions about you that are not accurate and you may be doing the same to him, because you have never been able to talk about certain topics openly... in the absence of direct information we all fill in the gaps with our own assumptions, and they are frequently innacurate.

so it would probably help you both a lot to seek out someone who can help you with the communication thing..

and if you do not feel comforable talking to the first therapist or counsellor you try, simply find another, therapy is all about rapport between all parties involved, if you don't have it with one counsellor it doesn't mean they are bad or a failure, just not the right one for you..

No I am not a therapist, although at one time i wanted to be, I have an undergraduate degree in psychology, but never pursued it beyond that point.

good luck to you both, it sounds as if things for you are headed in a positive direction

from Away

I'm with Wesley on this. Even though he has, perhaps, canceled his trip, you can only guess why, or whether it's been rescheduled.

As CLARIFY? pointed out, this is about you and the kind of person you want to be. You're in your second year of marraige. As you know, your marraige isn't going to get any easier than it is right now! It's work! If he's not committed now, when will he be?

There is nothing excusable about going to prostitutes. Would your husband feel so sanguine about you renting a man to satisfy your desires while he was gone?? Would he jump to the conclusion that you were just acting on sexual fantasies that you were too shy to share with him? Good lord, everyone has sexual fantasies! What separates the trustworthy people from the liars is that they don't act on fantasies that take them outside of their marraige. If your perfect and understanding husband saw a letter from you to some gigolo, explaining your desire to be abused while he had sex with you, would his "pride" get in the way of his confronting you on this? I seriously doubt it. If his "pride" would get in the way of working this out then he is not committed and this is not a marraige. Sorry.

Don't stay in a marraige in which you are, once again, the victim. How long will it be before he acts on his cravings and, once he does, do you really think it will stop? You're still young. You can rely on yourself. You don't need his acreage. Get a job and get some self respect!

And as for the "therapy" you received above, I totally disagree. While it certainly supports your husband and his supposed needs, it does nothing to protect you and your needs (other than your need to stick your head in the sand and avoid reality.) Give me a break. A good therapist will help you find the strength to do the right thing for yourself!

Take care of YOURSELF. Good luck.

Dear Away,

You really should think about pursuing psychology. Your insight is incredible.

Just a quick note to thank you for your advice. My wonderful husband called yesterday and sent an extremely heartwarming email today.

He is coming home at the time he should. So no trip to Thailand. I now feel sure this was a fantasy he wanted to pursue, but changed his mind for whatever reason. Maybe he realized what a horrible mistake he was making or the possible diseases he could catch or maybe, just maybe, he realized his marriage is much more important than seeking fulfillment elsewhere.

I'm very excited and relieved and so happy I can hardly contain myself.

I also believe this near-miss experience has opened the door for deeper communication, trust and honesty.

Thanks again! AME

Let me get this correct. Your first husband cheated on you for years, the whole STATE knew except you. Now, you're married to some 52 year old dream boat, whom you only see 6 months out of the 2 year relationship (so, technically it's only ONE year) and you just happened to see an email whereby he wants bondage while he's in Thailand. Am i correct so far? But you won't let your current husband know that you are a sneak just like he is? And this relationship you call a marriage?

Sweetie, forget all this psycho babble, you have a problem with yourself, not the men in your life. You've got 2 husbands who cheated on you. Your current husband is cheating on you. Duh? There is nothing to understand. He is not having a 52 mid life crisis and if he was does that give him the license to mistreat you????????!!!!!!!!!

Stop being the victim and start being the victor. I don't care if you guys owned 1000 acres. What does that have to do with anything? Get rid of this guy before it is too late. Find out why you let these men walk all over you? And stop it! Stand up for yourself. You deserve to be treated better and with respect. The whole state knew your husband was cheating and you felt embarrassed. What the heck are you feeling with #2. Who in their right mind would want a guy who secretly wants to go to Thailand and pay somebody to be bound? Tell him to go to Iraq. He can get it done there for free! That's how insane this sounds.

If you want an honest relationship with #2, tell him you read his email. Fess up. Otherwise, you are just wasting each other's time.

I know I'm coming to this discussion a little late, and much may have happened between you since the previous posts, but here are my two cents.

It is possible to engage in BDSM activities without actually "having sex." I mean, it's all related to sex, but many professional dominatrices have boundaries as to what they will allow, and will not include intercourse or certain other contact. Many people engage in BDSM activities outside their marriage or primary relationship with their partner's knowledge, and the understanding that it's the bondage and domination experience that is desired, not sexual intimacy. Now I'm not saying whether this is right or wrong, or appropriate for you, or whether this is the case in Thailand, or whether this was what your husband wanted. I'm just saying that the desire for BDSM does not always cancel out a true loving relationship. Sometimes a person wants this but cannot see their partner in a dominating role.

Having said all of this, a way that you could approach the subject and get it in the open for discussion between you might be to offer up your own fantasies. Even if BDSM isn't one of your fantasies, you might mention it in terms of something you had found interesting and wondered about. A good introduction to the world of BDSM and the appeal of "alternate" sexuality is Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission by William Brame and Gloria Brame. There are other books as well, and lots of informative websites on the net (not porn.) You might even find something that really does interest you as a way to bring up the general subject.

If he wants to know why you started reading this stuff, or how you got interested, you could say that you ran across something on the net that piqued your interest, instead of telling him that you read his email. He might end up telling you about his plans for the trip that he didn't take. Now I realize that this is not complete and utter honesty, but you have to decide the best approach in the interest of improving communication, rather than causing him to be defensive. (I agree with the previous posters' points about the issues of trust, but sometimes you have to take steps and can't get there all at once.)

I'm not telling you what you "should" do-- it's just food for thought.

Pat

I've been cheated on. It hurts. It's been years, and now it seems like my husband is cheating again. What are the signs that he is doing it again?? This time he is so much sneakier, won't ever wear his wedding band (claim's it's vain), flirts all the time with other women, lies, he's gone for his business all the time. I just don't know if this is worth it? Working on our marraige again. Yes there are kids involved. When his buddie's come from out of town, I know they are up to no good but he denies everything. He's alway angry, irritated, about everything under the sun. I know he's not happy, I am just a convenience, and stopping point, a status quo. I do not trust him, do I love him? Yes I do, but it's not the same. I can't say that I am 'In love with him.' So now what? I don't know.

Do NOT stay with this so-called man!! You need to reassess your standards with men. It seems you have a self-esteem problem. Do not get involved with another man until you have undergone psycotherapy and work out your lack of ability to choose men.